7 responses to “Lady Catherine Can’t Fire Mr. Collins”
Alice McVeigh
Very clever post. The giving of livings was definitely a very odd part of Regency life, and very dependent upon connections. Bredna S. Cox was new to me – thanks! – but I knew it was tough to uncouple a clergyman from his living (even in Trollope, far later, in terms of period).
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cindie snyder
Yes very clever! I never knew what a living was! No wonder Mr Collins was so close to Lady Catherine Debourgh!
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JMM
Yes, she could make over more livings. And I’m fairly certain she was too proud not to pay her rector very well. No one would be able to come by the parish and see him living in anything but the best a vicar could hope for.
The hard part of becoming a clergyman was obtaining a position.
As one usually had to have a position before the bishop of that See would ordain you, the young man needed to have some relatives, pull, or good luck to be given a living.
Some men were ordained but worked as school masters, librarians, or private chaplains. Each noble and royal was allowed a certain number of chaplains.
How Lady Catherine happened to come across Collins we aren’t told.
She might have sent a notice to the newspapers announcing interviews for a vacancy in Hunsford parish church. There would have been several applicants but many wouldn’t have given her the deference she thought she deserved. Perhaps Collins was accepted because he was a sycophant. She would not have wanted a parson who would go against her.
She could have asked the bishop for a candidate. No matter how it came about, it was her right to appoint a person to the position. The bishop of the See had to approve the appointment, but usually, there was no disagreement over the proprietor’s choice.
Lady Catherine had the right to appoint the clergyman to serve the parish church because she owned the advowson and was the proprietor of the living.
SHE COULD ALSO BE THE RECTOR OF THE LIVING.
THE RECTOR NEED NOT BE AN ORDAINED CLERGYMAN OR EVEN A MAN.
It could be a female, a family, a school, a college, a bishop, the Crown, or a guild. The owner of the advowson could be a Roman Catholic. Catholics were supposed to allow a Protestant or a University to appoint clergymen to those livings. The Duke of Norfolk who a had dozens of livings usually made the presentations, but he had a Protestant name them to the bishops.
AT THAT TIME, THE OWNER AND RECTOR COULD BE THE SAME PERSON OR ORGANIZATION, OR IT COULD BE THE INCUMBENT.
So, that means Lady Catherine could have delivered the sermons herself, though I imagine she would think doing so was below her, but several of the adaptations suggests she was saying the words along with Mr. Collins, giving the impression she assisted in writing them.
How the living was dispensed with depended on how the position was set up when established.
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Caroline
Nice post! I would like to add a bit: firstly, there’s a book- ‘Jane Austen and the l Clergy’ by professor Irene Collins, which delves deep into all aspects of being, or living with, a clergyman, including describing several activities that a clergyman might carry out which would augment his authority within the parish. This might help account for Mr Collins’ self importance, and why he ( and indeed Mr Elton, as Mr Knightly remarks) would often be in male- only company where Charlotte could not go; and under what circumstances a clergyman might have more than one living with the blessing of the local bishop. For this she uses the Austen family as examples. She also gives plausible reasoning to suggest that Mr C’s living was an exceptionally rich one. Anyway, if you are interested in any or all of Jane Austen’s real or fictitious parsons, sextons, vergers, deacons and what they did, and what she said about them, this book is very helpful.
7 responses to “Lady Catherine Can’t Fire Mr. Collins”
Very clever post. The giving of livings was definitely a very odd part of Regency life, and very dependent upon connections. Bredna S. Cox was new to me – thanks! – but I knew it was tough to uncouple a clergyman from his living (even in Trollope, far later, in terms of period).
Yes very clever! I never knew what a living was! No wonder Mr Collins was so close to Lady Catherine Debourgh!
Yes, she could make over more livings. And I’m fairly certain she was too proud not to pay her rector very well. No one would be able to come by the parish and see him living in anything but the best a vicar could hope for.
It was likely Lady Catherine selected Mr. Collins for the living because he accommodated her by not claiming the full tithe rights due him.
That is certainly possible. Lucy Steele contemplates raising Colonel Brandon’s tithes to the upmost possible!
The hard part of becoming a clergyman was obtaining a position.
As one usually had to have a position before the bishop of that See would ordain you, the young man needed to have some relatives, pull, or good luck to be given a living.
Some men were ordained but worked as school masters, librarians, or private chaplains. Each noble and royal was allowed a certain number of chaplains.
How Lady Catherine happened to come across Collins we aren’t told.
She might have sent a notice to the newspapers announcing interviews for a vacancy in Hunsford parish church. There would have been several applicants but many wouldn’t have given her the deference she thought she deserved. Perhaps Collins was accepted because he was a sycophant. She would not have wanted a parson who would go against her.
She could have asked the bishop for a candidate. No matter how it came about, it was her right to appoint a person to the position. The bishop of the See had to approve the appointment, but usually, there was no disagreement over the proprietor’s choice.
Lady Catherine had the right to appoint the clergyman to serve the parish church because she owned the advowson and was the proprietor of the living.
SHE COULD ALSO BE THE RECTOR OF THE LIVING.
THE RECTOR NEED NOT BE AN ORDAINED CLERGYMAN OR EVEN A MAN.
It could be a female, a family, a school, a college, a bishop, the Crown, or a guild. The owner of the advowson could be a Roman Catholic. Catholics were supposed to allow a Protestant or a University to appoint clergymen to those livings. The Duke of Norfolk who a had dozens of livings usually made the presentations, but he had a Protestant name them to the bishops.
AT THAT TIME, THE OWNER AND RECTOR COULD BE THE SAME PERSON OR ORGANIZATION, OR IT COULD BE THE INCUMBENT.
So, that means Lady Catherine could have delivered the sermons herself, though I imagine she would think doing so was below her, but several of the adaptations suggests she was saying the words along with Mr. Collins, giving the impression she assisted in writing them.
How the living was dispensed with depended on how the position was set up when established.
Nice post! I would like to add a bit: firstly, there’s a book- ‘Jane Austen and the l Clergy’ by professor Irene Collins, which delves deep into all aspects of being, or living with, a clergyman, including describing several activities that a clergyman might carry out which would augment his authority within the parish. This might help account for Mr Collins’ self importance, and why he ( and indeed Mr Elton, as Mr Knightly remarks) would often be in male- only company where Charlotte could not go; and under what circumstances a clergyman might have more than one living with the blessing of the local bishop. For this she uses the Austen family as examples. She also gives plausible reasoning to suggest that Mr C’s living was an exceptionally rich one. Anyway, if you are interested in any or all of Jane Austen’s real or fictitious parsons, sextons, vergers, deacons and what they did, and what she said about them, this book is very helpful.